Hayley Dodd missing

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:13 pm

Yes Chris - it's been there since June 15th - he's miffed that we locked the thread with password access - this is his way of trying to coerce his way back in here!
Thankfully so far by ignoring him totally - I've heard nothing more from him.
I intend to do the same - ignore him - and hope he goes away - finds something else to be interested in.
I found it on about the 16th and Fossil brought it to my attention also more recently again.
I admit to being sorely "tempted" to reply to his blog and give him another spray as a guy with mummy's boy issues, which embarrassed him into deleting his blog last time...
He keeps popping them up at different places because Police warned him off blogging about Hayley due to complaints from Margaret, I think he's been warned maybe twice so far, so he is pretty cagey about posting on mainstream blogs where anyone might see it and further complain.
The way I see it - he is entitled to his opinion, and hes entitled to express it.
Notice there are no responses - & the less people respond / participate in his game, the less search engines pick it up, and eventually, it will die away.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention anyway Chris. Very good if you to be keeping an eye out for signs of trouble.

Have you any thoughts or questions about how the search is progressing the new clues and breakthroughs / witnesses etc that have come to light?

Anything you want to proffer by way of theory or possibilities?
I consider you part of the team and welcome any input - 4 brains are better than 2 working on this.

Don't hold back - all contributions are welcome. You never know who will throw up a new possibility a new line of inquiry etc. Really wish we knew more about what Police are doing to follow up this new lead after their interview Monday with the Mother of the teen girl who came forward after the TV show.

Understandably they are probably keeping their cards close to their chest - that's to be expected. I'm guessing Margaret will be the first to hear anything when and if they actually DO anything with the new clues -after all it took them 3 weeks to even get round to interviewing the new witness.

I'm expecting wheels to turn maybe faster than they really will.

It would be NICE if police could produce some sort of "result" from the new info sometime BEFORE the anniversary of her disappearance 11 years ago in July coming up.

I had set my sights on finding her remains before/bye then but times ticking bye and if non of you ca tell I am stressing badly about that - my apologies to you all - poor Fossil has been copping it in spades - mainly coz shes the only one in ear shot.

My sincere apologies Fossil and I do mean that... I'm under a little stress in a few area's of my life ATM and this isn't helping, so thank you for the understanding and leeway.

I am finding being cooped up here, with "no ability to get out and search is eating me up.

I'd be a lot better if I was out bush doing something positive toward getting a result....I don't sit & twiddle thumbs well. I'm damned antsy....and can't seem to shake it.

Used to be a time I'd get stuck into some physical work to get me thru these periods...

Maybe I need to take up drinking or something! (No good chasing fast & loose women I'm too fat to catch em)! =))

Cheers

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:00 am

Forget about him SLAL and Chris - no good can come from that creep!

Now here's the thing, I've got clarification from M and you're going to love this!

On the timeline 1 map you will see a reference to Stribley - he is the chemical salesman from Moora. He departed a farm on Badgingarra Rd at 11.30 - that time is taken from something he was listening to on the radio. He turned right onto NW Rd and witnessed Hayley. If you look at the timeline 1 map SLAL, you will see a reference to 11.35 with a small 'x'. That's where Stribley witnessed Hayley - it's quite a distance from Wathingarra, in fact I estimate it to be about the halfway point between winjardi and wathingarra.

So Hayley could quite easily have convered that distance in the allotted time.

Now the Telstra guy's information is uncorroborated but M has said that he saw Hayley very close to the farm. I've asked M if she knows 'how close' and await her reply.

I've also asked M about lunchtime breaks at the farm.

What time wombat/jamie departed the farm that day.

Also, if M can recall the name of the road the 2 guys by the 4wd vehicle with shovel were sighted on. M initially told me a while ago that sighting was not regarded with interested, but I've asked for the road name because it may well tie in with something that we're working at.

Also asked if Jamie McN was familiar and noted that he may of been around that day and no one has advised of this.

So darling Hayley was almost at her destination - the farm from hell IS the centre of the universe !

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:42 am

Ok....

Now I need to shoot down one of my own 'recent' theory's.

A few posts back I threw out a theory that Hayley stopped for a pee got bit bye a snake and died in that little patch of bush just past Wathingarra road on NW road just past where the telstra guy saw her at 1.05 pm.

I liked it because it was a simple solution - no murders just a terrible accident.

Now I have to scrub it out for the most obvious of reasons - one I SHOULD have thought of, before I even typed it - seeing i was a wildlife officer all those years.

Hayley went missing late July 1999 in WINTER and snakes hibernate in winter!

We are back to the farm and the bad guys I'm afraid.

I'm still vitally interested in that bit of bush tho...and fully intend to search it ASAP.

Heres something that occurs to me.

We could REALLY do with the services of a team member, who is an expert at Powerpoint presentations.

I'd LIKE to make a powerpoint presentation of the timeline - where a bit like a video - we can superimpose Hayley walking down the road over a continuous image from google earth of NW road. At the appropriate spots we mark where witnesses sighted Hayley and relevant times.

I'm thinking i could copy sections of the highway continuously from Google earth in color and print them out - paste them all together in a long photographic timeline, with everything marked out - much as the police did - but concentrating on the wathingarra road to hammond farm section.

THEN we could FIT the suspects alibi's or possible movements and times around our facts and see where they intersect Hayleys known movements etc for likely scenario's.

I'm not that good at power point - anyone know someone who is?

Cheers!

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:41 am

To your question - Stribley the chemicals salesman?

Obviously to me you can read your copy of the original timeline map better than I can read mine...

I can't tell if it reads where the x on the road is as 1105 hours or 1135 hrs....its either a 0 or a 3..I'm not sure.

Anyway I opened up both maps 1 & 2 of the timeline and zoomed them OUT to 200%.

Then I help up a piece of paper straight edge and marked the distance from Winjardi road to edge of timeline one map, including the little x where stribley saw Hayley, and then used the same piece of paper on timeline map 2 zoomed out to 200%, and I continued to mark off the distance too Wathingarra road.

I get a total distance measured with a dressmakers tape along the paper of 99 millimters. It was 70mm from Winjardi rd to where Hayley was seen by Stribley (at 1135), and another 29 millimeters to Wathingarra road.

We know that these 99 millimetrs (4 inches) represents exactly the 8.6 kilometers between wnjardi rd and wathingarra road as measured by google earth. (8600 meters divided by 99 millimeters = 1 millimeter to 86.868688686868 recurring meters).

So.

Some measurements maybe we can work with for Hayley.

29/99 x 100/1 = she had 29.29recurring % of the total distance (8600 meters) left to cover to Wathingarra road at the time Stribley saw her at 11.35 hours. Thus she had already covered 70.71% of the 8600meters (or 6081.6 meters walked from the time she left Winjardi road).

Lets assume she left Badgingarra at 1040 with the lady ag worker after she made the two calls to Dongara and Hammond Farm from the Badgingarra roadhouse. Its 76 mm from roadhouse to Winjardi corner measured from the same Timeline one map at 200%.

We know 1 millimeter to 86.868688686868 recurring meters) = 6602 meters (6.6 kilometers).

Im going to assume an average speed for the Lady Ag driver of 90 kph to account for acceleration deceleration the short distance and talking to Hayley.

4.4 minutes to drive to Winjardi road corner, 5 mins if we allow for stopping time and brief farewells.

So we can pretty safely assume that the lady Ag worker dropped Hayley at the corner of Winjardi road at 10.45am as I've suggested before (this just confirms that guess is all).

OK

So she walks from Winjardi road corner the 6081.6 meters by 1135, a total of 50 minutes! to the Stribley sighting point.

7.29792 Kilometers per hour is her average walking speed (4.37 miles an hour - gee wizz eh!) ;)

We pretty much KNOW that now without much uncertainty, because those are 'reasonably accurate distances' over a relatively long time, so not a large margin for error.

Now

If she has to walk the remaining 29 millimeters x 1 millimeter to 86.868688686868 recurring meters) = 2519.19 meters to walk.

We know from above that shes walking at 7297.92 meters an hour walking speed average from Winjardi to where seen (its only 3 odd miles and she was fresh at the start and 50 mins is nothing for a fit young lady!).

20.71 minutes or 20 minutes near enough

1135 + 20 minutes = 1155hours at Wathingarra road!

(Pretty close to my previous rough workings of 12.06 arrival at Wathingarra road)!

Remember these are scale measured distances correlated with physical timed sightings of her actual position - this is what the EVIDENCE shows and correlates with what I expected.

Its still a LONG way to the beginning boundary of Hammond farm (not sure where their driveway is off the highway - could be 100 or so meters maybe but for now I will work with the closest boundary of Hammond farm. Its 82 mm on the timeline 2 map zoomed to 200%.

82mm x 1 millimeter to 86.868688686868 recurring meters) = 7123.23 meters.

This is the harder part of the walk - Hayleys no longer "fresh".

I'm going to reduce her walk speed from the measured average at the beginning of 7.29792 Kilometers per hour, to 6500 meters per hour (A whisker under 4mph)...and closer to Fossils Google assumed speed.

We have an anomaly already in that the Telstra worker saw her "somewhere closer to Hammond farm" (i.e. past Wathingarra road cnr) at 1.05 PM - we can figure out pretty close to where this would be.

Time elapsed between 11.55 when she SHOULD have arrived at Wathingarra road, and 1.05 when sighted by Telstra man...1 hour 10 mins.

1.1 x 6500 meters an hour = 7150 meters.

If she didn't slow down - she'd already made it, to Hammond farm, when sighted by the Telstra man at 1.05 and if she did as we might expect towards the end of her walk - then she was STILL already 27 meters past the closest boundary fence of Hammond farm! i.e when reportedly sighted by Telstra man - she was at the entrance to Hammond farm driveway! (or within mere meters spitting distance of it).

From this we know something CONCRETE Fossil.

We know she arrived there at 1.05 the reported sighting time by Telstra man.

We know Hayley wasn't abducted on the road on the way to Hammond farm - no way!

She made it too Hammond farm & Telstra mans sighting confirms it.

Either Telstra man is a lying and is our culprit.

or

She made it to the farm and as soon as arrived - during that afternoon and before Hammond senior arrived home, she was allegedly possibly drugged & overdosed with the possible alleged intention of being raped, allegedly died from the overdose & the responsible party/s then disposed of her remains (possibly at the tip?).

We know from their alleged alibi's that Hammond Junior and O'Connel were there.
Material correction of facts - Allegedly their alibis state they were allegedly fixing a tractor allegedly at WARK Farm

We know allegedly Brad Hammond allegedly saw Wombat, get away with this alleged drugging & assault scenario, only 6 weeks before with the woman witnesses daughter.

There is little doubt in my mind, that either:-

Wombat & Jamie allegedly came back to the farm and allegedly found Hayley there, or allegedly gave her a lift the last few meters maybe down the driveway & allegedly overdosed her, while Brad Hammond junior & O'Connell were actually working on the tractor as claimed at Wark farm.

or

Hayley allegedly arrived at Hammond farm and allegedly Brad Hammond Junior & Allegedly O'Connell allegedly weren't fixing the tractor, they allegedly returned for lunch & they allegedly overdosed her and allegedly disposed of the body.

or

The Telstra man Allegedly abducted her and allegedly raped / killed her and allegedly disposed of the body and is allegedly lying about his sighting time.

The only thing that can change this is if that alleged sighting by Stribley isn't timed at 11.35 as allegedly claimed, but is allegedly 11.05, as I suspect it might be, that slows Hayley's walk speed and pushes the time line out and the alleged distance covered back from Hammond farm (closer to Mr Telstra man - a alleged prime suspect as the last one to allegedly see her alive, and who's alleged time doesn't make sense).

Can you confirm the Alleged Stribley 11.35 time for me please Fossil?

I can re-work the math and distances, to account for the 30 minutes difference if necessary.

At the moment the math is telling a lot different story to what allegedly police and allegedly everyone else have long allegedly believed - that she was allegedly abducted on the road.

I seriously doubt it, unless it was the alleged Telstra man or allegedly Wombat allegedly coming back to the farm!

We REALLY need to do this walk - on the ground. I'm assuming that's why allegedly Mick Buckley did the same thing, a re-creation.

Times are pretty critical in this sort of maths...

But I still think there's something wrong with the telstra mans alleged story...

Cheers

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:10 pm

So now you're a mathematician SLAL. What unbelievable skill you have.

Now I've had a really good think about this and it doesn't matter how good our projections regarding placing Hayley where are, we will never know what pace she walked at, how often she stopped and rested etc. So what we DO know, is we have 2 witnesses.

One who has stated seeing Hayley at that point on timeline map 1 at 11.35am, which by the way is very very close to where Mick Buckley placed Hayley. I trust Mick's judgment on that given that he's probably also spoken with this Stribley fellow. The 2nd sighting of Hayley is the Telstra guys and he's put Hayley at almost at the farm gate so to speak.

In my mind where the plods have made a (probably the most) critical error in judgment is not to accept the Telstra guy's sighting. Coupled with the total effing stuff up of crimestoppers not passing on probably the most critical piece of information from the girl's mother who made contact as soon as she heard of Hayley disappearance and her connection to the relative farm. She had relayed information about something that occurred on that farm just SIX WEEKS PRIOR to that fateful day. JUST SIX EFFING WEEKS!

Another critical effing stuff up was that when they found a photo of the girl in the house and made contact with her, they implied to the girl they had made contact with her to ensure themselves of her well being. It doesn't seem they even considered getting a statement from her at any stage. This in my mind is an almost unconscionable oversight. They phone her....oh so it is you in the photo and you're alive - thank goodness...thanks for your time. Perhaps if they weren't so quick to satisfy themselves and ask a couple of not too difficult relative questions like....what was your connection to the farm, how long were you there for....why did you leave - well that might have just prompted this girl to tell all. Also saving her from the many many years she has had to deal with her pain. The girl's mother did try and tell the Police but NO ONE LISTENED.

The reasons I say 'unconscionable' is that in 1999 the WA Police already had Scotland Yard's HOLMES (acronym) computerised intelligence system that matches data already activated and fully functioning. Crimestopper report information is fed into the system but only the information that is thought to be relevant is fed in - there is human intervention. Because that 'human' someone from Crimestoppers considered the mother's information not to be valid to the case, the information obviously was not fed through to the investigation team. UNBELIEVABLE.

So what all the above has done, is sidetracked the Police investigation. By ignoring the Telstra guy's sighting they've altered timelines in their minds and investigations by 1.5 hours.

Hayley was last seen almost at the farm gate at 1.05pm and we have 2 guys who have placed themselves (together) at that farm at that time. We also have 2 guys who have placed themselves (together) at Badgingarra at that time. Now follow me here....

One of the guys at the farm Hammond jnr (guy 1) knew that one of the guys in Badgingarra - Wombat (guy 2), was violent against young women as he had witnessed it personally. The other guy Jamie McNeill (guy 3) in Badgingarra that day who has provided a alibi for Wombat, also new of this man's violence because he was present to witness this particular episode as well. So we have 3 guys all know of a violent offence against a young woman and one of them is the alleged offender (guy 2). He had thrown this girls clothing into the farm trailer, had threatened to throw her into the trailer AND TAKE HER TO THE DUMP WITH HER CLOTHES. Guys 1 and 3 retrieved the girls clothes back into the house. When Guy 2 realised this he went to assault the girl and guys 1 and 3 prevented this from happening. The 4th guy, who is the convicted sexual offender O'Connel. O'Connel has provided the alibi for Hammond Jnr - placing them both at the farm that day repairing a tractor BUT todate it is not known whether he was present during the alleged drugging and rape.

Guys 1 and 2 are still in contact with each other through their facebook pages. Guys 2 and 3 are still in contact with each other through their facebook pages. Guy 4 does not appear to be in current contract via facebook.

Now what I find interesting is that how these guys have split themselves up on the day. Guys 1+4 together, guys 2+3 together.

Now stay with me....

Hammond Snr must have known Hayley was going to visit the farm as M has said that Hayley wanted to go straight to the farm with her friend L ex Mandurah. Her friend wanted to go direct to Dongara for personal reasons so that's what they did. So in order for Hayley to have considered going direct to the farm ex Perth wouldn't you consider there must have been contact with Hammond Snr or Jnr. There must have been some contact also when the girls decided to head straight for Dongara. I wonder if there was another phone call made ex Dongara to the farm, when Hayley realised the work was running out. Her friend did not want to go to the farm from Dongara either so I do wonder if there had been contact with the farm to say she was traveling there by herself. It could be that the arrangement was then made for Hayley to phone them from the Badgingarra roadhouse and someone would pick her up, hence Hayley's call from the roadhouse.

No one answered and she left a message, and started making her way to the farm, possibly hoping that someone would hear her message and come and pick her up.

Hayley already new Hammond Snr (whereabouts not at farm on day - verified), Hammond Jnr - on farm that day (his statement and alibi supported by O'Connel). She already new Wombat (verified by M) but did she know O'Connel??? Did she know Jamie??? Jamie was linked to Hammond jnr so it is possible.

I think the questions that need to be answered now are:

Was there any forewarning to any of these guys, prior to the phone call made from the roadhouse, that Hayley had intended to travel to the farm by herself?

Were all guys employed at the farm? Who arranged for what farm employee to be doing what on the day? It could be that perpetrator/s had a say in organising everyone on that day for his or their own purposes - which could show intent.

Who arranged for the 2 teams to be together on that day? Was this their normal routine or did something change that day?

What were Wombat and Jamie required to do in Badingarra that day? What time did they depart the farm? It was a work day - Thursday. Are there statements supported by any other evidence ie financial transactions/purchases/inquiries/sightings?

When did Hammond snr know that Hayley had left the answering machine message?

Who had key to the locked telephone? did the locking of the phone prevent answering machine messages from being listened to??

Who was the first person to hear that message, and who else heard that message?

Hammond Snr has recently said to M that he thought Hayley might have bumped into Wombat/Jamie in Badgingarra or on the road, and that she was with them. That is why he was not concerned when she was not at the farm when he arrived back there at what time on Thursday evening?? He did not see Wombat until early Friday morning and then was told that Hayley had not been sighted? Where did Wombat tell Hammond Snr he was on Thursday afternoon and evening??

Why were Hammond jnr and O'Connel working together on the tractor? Did either of them have mechanical expertise?

What times were the normal routine for morning tea and lunch breaks on the farm? O'Connel lived at the cnr of McNamara Rd and NW Rd, and adjacent to Winjardi Rd - was it his normal routine to go back to his residence for a lunch break?

Why has Hammond jnr been told by Hammond snr to keep his mouth shut (overheard convo)?

There you go....

Hey, I've found on facebook a Badgingarra Pub site. Thought it could be an interesting exercise to put something on there asking what the guys and gals do in the area. Like saying considering moving up that way and want to find out what the teenagers get up to. Any special places or haunts etc. I'm still thinking about that. Also there's a Badgingarra swap/sell site on facebook as well - lots of local ladies trading stuff on there too.

J McN's facebook link http://www.facebook.com/people/Jamie-Mcneill/1299499729. He is a friend on Hammond jnrs facebook page. On his wall messages he admits to being violent, actually brags about his violent adventures - seems to like the occasional punchup, has holed a door recently, threatened to blowup anz bank, used to have dreadlocks. Recently broke up relationship is currently single and likes to party REAL HARD. Likes to play sexual games and has negative remarks about women. Is a smoker. NB That could be interesting. I wonder if there were any cigarette butts picked up by the forensic crew along the NW Road!!!???

So we have 2 guys who are known to be violent and 1 convicted sexual offender/predator.

Another interesting avenue of inquiry would be is to find out how many girls had worked previously on that farm, when and how long did they stay and which men were working at the farm at the same time. If there had ever been any reports or rumours about goings on there???

:o3

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:27 pm

Sir. I open the maps direct from the link on this site. then I use the ctrl key and + keys to enlarge to full extent. Can see much clearer than saving and using windows picture manager - much clearer indeed! the fog has lifted.... :-B

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:32 pm

still very interested to find out that road the witness saw the 2 guys with 4wd and shovel

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx? ... tID=114196

Ellen the reporter is very very reliable! Take note she refers to last sighting being 3kms past the Badgingarra-Dandaragan rd cnr which is just about where the 11.30am and 'x' is on the map and pretty close to where Buckley says sighting should be noted at - not near wathingarra.

M has spoken with this man and she said he was very credible but the road is not near the crime scene so not considered. But I've asked M if she could please tell us the road because it could be that it could provide a link to someone in the background. awaiting M's reply

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:10 pm

Very very cogent replies Fossil.
There's nothing in the last 3 posts that I don't agree with.

I offer this - which you may or may not have considered?.

This Jamie McNeils facebook page shows Brad Hammond as a friend.
Brad Hammond Shows Wombat as a Friend.
Yet Jamie McNeil's facebook page does NOT show Wombat Payne as a friend.

We know that allegedly Jamie McNeil, & Wombat allegedly spent that day together allegedly in Badgingarra.
We Know allegedly Wombat has an alleged violent streak.
We know allegedly that Jamie apparently has an alleged violent streak.
We allegedly suspect both Wombat & Jamie as alleged "potential" suspects in Hayley's alleged disappearance & alleged physical harm leading to her demise.

It seems strange to me that allegedly Brad Hammond is allegedly friends with Both of the two alleged suspects yet the two alleged suspects allegedly arent friends on facebook.

One would imagine that, a alleged crime like Hayley's alleged abduction & alleged demise allegedly would likely "bond" the two alleged perpetrators together allegedly for life, in a alleged mutual "dependence" on each other for their alleged continued silence, alleged lies and thus freedom, allegedly in relation to their alleged mutual alibi's.

The thought occurs to me that allegedly maybe if there's a 'rift' of any kind between these two alleged suspects such that they allegedly aren't friends of each other allegedly any longer, allegedly maybe this could be exploited in some way as part of the research?.

I have another question for you please Fossil - how are you allegedly able to read these alleged suspects Facebook walls allegedly with their comments about themselves and allegedly comments etc from their alleged friends - without allegedly signing up as a friend of each of the alleged suspects?

All I get is their cover page and no detail?. Just curious.

Thanks for the effort you've just put in - it certainly adds a lot more to the story than we knew previously.

Cheers

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:37 pm

Sir. I open the maps direct from the link on this site. then I use the ctrl key and + keys to enlarge to full extent. Can see much clearer than saving and using windows picture manager - much clearer indeed! the fog has lifted.... :-B
I tried that as well - still can't read the balloons any more - it must be my screen or maybe I don't have enough RAM to get a clear depiction of such fine detail.

My eyes are crook i know that much.....

Mr Magoo should be my screen name not sir laughs a lot!

Cheers!

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:45 pm

we know which is the hammond farm property as it's detailed on timeline 2 doc. M has advised that Gladwin Errington leases his block on the cnr of mungebar from the hammonds. If you look at google earth it looks as though the errington/hammonds share a driveway. now look north of that driveway and there appears to be a farm road that goes thru another property that's marked as erringtons on timeline 2 doc. if you follow that track it links up with wathingarra road a fair distance north.

given that errington/hammond have a relationship, no one would think twice about seeing a vehicle from the hammond property using that track that goes through errington's northside property would they? the only residential type houses I can see on google earth are to the left of the errington northside property. If someone's accessed this track around the 1.00pm time that would be lunchtime and these neighbours would probably be inside or may not have been around during the day.

it doesn't appear the plods checked properties any further north than the properties that had NW Rd as their boundary, so this could be an area to check. the only prob is again, it looks as though it's private land. but that would make perfect sense for someone to go up there at that particular time of day wouldn't it? Off the main highway,no witnesses, lunchtime etc.

It kind of runs parallel to the Coalara Rd which is to the right

another question would be did any of the hammond farm guys work on or have access to any other properties in the area?

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:06 pm

Very very cogent replies Fossil.
There's nothing in the last 3 posts that I don't agree with.

I offer this - which you may or may not have considered?.

This J's facebook page shows H Jnr as a friend.
H Jnr Shows Wombat as a Friend.
Yet J's facebook page does NOT show Wombat as a friend.



girls mother has said that H Jnrand Jamie were friends. So their friendship continues today. It looks as though J may have gone to the same school in the pinjarra areas as H jnr. Wombat went to high school in Moora and H jnr also attended that school for a while - so the common link is H jnr.


We know that J, & Wombat spent that day together in Badgingarra.
We Know Wombat has a violent streak.
We know that J Apparently has a violent streak.
We suspect both Wombat & J as "potential" suspects in Hayley's disappearance & murder.


It seems strange to me that H Jnr is friends with Both of the two suspects yet the two suspects arent friends on facebook.



what that says to me is that J may have rejected wombat's application to become his friend. perhaps he doesn't want to be known as associating as his friend. wombat may have used a different name that is not known to us on j's facebook site. perhaps wombat and j have had a falling out.

One would imagine that, a crime like Hayley's abduction, rape and murder would "bond" the two perpetrators together for life in a mutual "dependence" on each other for their continued silence, lies and thus freedom, in relation to their mutual alibi's.



as I said very very early in the piece...in just may be that given the girl's alleged drugging and raping, the same has occurred with Hayley. If these or one of these guys was into using ghb, that drug can be extremely toxic. the girl was a much larger size that Hayley and it would have not taken too much to overdose Hayley. She would not have known she had been drugged - this drug is also known as the date rape drug - it's slipped into your drink and you never know. These days with all the education out there girls know better but 1999 was when this drug really hit the streets and being misused all over the place. many girls died and many girls ended up in hospital . one of the only ways you can really tell you've been done with this drug is you have a very very bad hangover which is far in excess of what you drank if you know what I mean. so it could well be a case that they are all covering for each other because of a very very tragic accident and I don't say this lightly either but it requires consideration. these guys could have all panicked and given that 3 of them have really bad character traits they covered for each other. H jnr seems to be the odd one out and he's been warned by his father to keep his mouth shut. they could all well be implicated in a criminal offence by perveting the course of justice etc etc and that would include H jnr.


The thought occurs to e that maybe if there's a 'rift' of any kind between these two suspects such that they aren't friends of each other any longer, maybe this could be exploited in some way as part of the investigation?.

absolutely

I have another question for you please Fossil - how are you able to read these suspects Facebook walls with their comments about themselves and comments etc from their friends - without signing up as a friend of each of the suspects?

in order to see each others messages you need to have the 'wall' section visibly available - like in Hayley's facebook page. Brad's 'wall' is visible and there's not much on there but his friends are probably communicating via PM or through another friend's site. Wombat's wall has gone in the last week or so, m mck's (wombat's fiance) wall has gone this week and J's wall disappeared this morning (my time). so either the plods have 'borrowed' their walls - they are able to do that, or they've got a wiff of whats currently going on behind the scenes and you know what I mean there. I'm just kicking myself I didn't copy J's wall yesterday damn damn damn but I'm glad I took the couple of hours it took to have a read of all of his wall messages. gave me a good insight to who this guy is. if he's deleted anything the plod will be able to grab the electronic data anyway. I've got a lot off wombat's wall - he has 2 sites - one under wombat p and one s p but his wall has gone too. something's going on me thinks.

All I get is their cover page and no detail?. Just curious.

have you logged in with your facebook id?


Thanks for the effort you've just put in - it certainly adds a lot more to the story than we knew previously.


stribley is still listed in whitepages in moora. you could consider contacting him on one of you outings there but I'd run that past M first just in case the plods have background stuff going on that we're not privy to.
Cheers
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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:20 pm

Can't be 100% sure, but I thought he stepped forward, which tends to throw suspicion off him. Maybe that's his intent in doing so?


I think not.
Here's why I think so.

Your "twisting" what was reported as act and confirmed from 2 sources - to suit a preconceived theory.

No one reported her at Wathingarra at 1130 thats entirely YOUR fabrication which you then want to go ahead dismiss as a Furphy.



can you please stop saying that I am making wild arse guesses - the wathingarra rd information and 11.30am are exactly what has been written by Margaret on the facebook site. and I quote "Hayley Dodd age 17, was last seen on the Corner of Wathingarra Rd and The North West Rd,Badgingarra"



No one except YOU said she was there at 11.30

The witness said NEAR Wathingarra road at 1130. How near we don't know. We do know if she walked as fast as I suspect she could well have been at the corner by 1206, which means she could likewise have been NEAR the corner of Wathingarra road from the point of view of a person in a car at 100 kph. When your traveling at a mile a minute, 60mph, or 100kph, Near the corner...could be one or two MILES (hence half an hours walk) away from the corner - yet to the observer in the car you were "just near the corner" which is the next thing they saw 2 minutes later or 2 minutes before.

Thats an accurate description for a car driver - which is how she was seen.

You seem so keen to refuse to believe that - every time you suggest it - you make out thats she was AT the corner and the witnesses don't say that they say NEAR the corner....a minute or two away ie a couple miles away or half an hours walk.

I'm honestly not being critical of this oversight by you - I have an advantage having been on site and driven that road a few times now, such that I have a reasonable memory of it and the descriptions of witnesses to me, in that context - make some sense.

A half hours walk is 2 minutes away - which constitutes NEAR in the context of the witnesses who were driving cars...
NEAR does not equal AT the corner.
OK I've labored that point enough - maybe I made more of it than was needed, sorry bout that - just trying hard to get us on the same page on anything.

You know what I'd really like to do?

Drive along NW road at 100kph on cruise control to maintain a consistent speed - leaving Winhjardi rd towards Wathingarra road...and have a stopwatch & paintball gun hanging out passengers window pointing at ground. Every 1 minutes shoot paint onto the ground at every mile marker.

Then do a walk test with Heather, to emulate Hayleys walk with backpack n all.

We could then mark an actual time at each mile marker...so we have an accurate timeline....mark down the sightings spots and time match them...in paint on the road.

I think bye the time Heather got out to Wathingarra road and where the telstra man was at 1.05 we might have a better idea of when or if Hayley would have got there.

As Mick Buckley did - have someone leave the farm that the second witness who sighted her did and see where / when the two paths cross & mark that.

Whether this would introduce more error or not I don;t know but I'm thinking it would be handy to have it all set out like that on ground - maybe more clues would then become evident while actually there on the ground where Hayley was.

I got this feeling we are missing something.

Cheers![/quote]
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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:39 pm

has obviously told Hammond snr because of what was discussed with M recently. He was surprised she new about that.
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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:17 pm

I just also thought of something....

There's a "common link" between Jamie & Wombat and that's Brad Hammond - he is the ONE common link / thread in all this.

Here's how I THINK maybe, he fits in.

I think he could be the "supplier" of the date rape drug GBH to the others!

If as you suggest Hayley was overdosed for rape but died as a result, then He would be equally culpable as the "dealer" of the drug.

There's a reason that farm was attracting sex predators - and I personally suspect strongly - that maybe Brad Hammond, is the commonality - in that he is the drug dealer - he is the source of the date rape drug GBH.

I think that whether or not he personally killed Hayley he is probably equally "culpable" at the end of the day for the loss of her life - as the probable supplier of the drug.

My worry?

That the Police haven't yet figured all this out - and when they go in after these guys they don't go - with all the possibilities in the back of their mind in as far as rooting out ALL the linkages and people involved.

We cannot convict anyone based on our speculation - no matter how well reasoned or researched or how plausible the theory's.

I am very worried about WHY all these facebook pages are apparently disappearing & altering with the frequency they are...and hope like heck the people concerned aren't 'privy' to anything going on here, by any means.

As a Moderator - I can view - who is even watching the forum as a guest....and I've seen no one here viewing bar you & I and occasionally Chris.

If I suspected that our discussion was somehow being viewed by the wrong people, I would of course delete it.

Hopefully the reason is the one you stated, but we have no way of knowing that for sure!

For now I'm still satisfied with the security of a password protected forum, for how long that continues remains to be determined.

Cheers

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:45 pm

This is the last known 'police accepted' spot Hayley was sighted at. The police timeline 1 doc has detailed 'rough 6 km' at the Stribley 11.35 sighting spot. The 'b' marker is the spot. I've matched the satelite view as close as possible to the map view on the timeline doc.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=d&sour ... 8&t=h&z=13

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Chris Roubis » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:41 pm

I am very worried about WHY all these facebook pages are apparently disappearing & altering with the frequency they are...and hope like heck the people concerned aren't 'privy' to anything going on here, by any means.

As a Moderator - I can view - who is even watching the forum as a guest....and I've seen no one here viewing bar you & I and occasionally Chris.
Perhaps they getting nervous that we made this forum private.
if I was them, I would feel that you guys are hiding some evidence in the case from public eyes.

Maybe i should put a copy of this topic back up in public mode, to the last reply about SLAL not having the time anymore to find Hayley? :-?

Wouldn't it be funny, if we replied to the forum that Police investigators now have evidence about Hayleys killer and an arrest is issued... all we had to do is wait outside wombats place to see him pack his bags and run.
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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:49 pm

Probably would be fun Chris - to wait n see if Wombat does a run,er - but for now lets remain in private as the police do their thing, because hopefully they are closing the net on Wombat and whoever else.

It could just be the way kids manage their facebook accounts these days, always changing them.

I'm guessing time will tell.

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:37 pm

I've set up the below headings - at Fossils wise suggestion, because these are what we need to answer to research this "bye the numbers".

My idea is - that we can copy paste these headings into our posts at the salient points to indicate what we are answering at any given time...just as "markers" so that we can if required later, copy these comments into maybe a spreadsheet, with others that answer the same aspect and try to piece together the jigsaw that way - piece by piece (if that makes sense - kid of a way of gathering together "like information" at a later point of necessary.

Who
In here at the moment IMHO we have the following alleged POSSIBLE suspects:- (feel free to add any I've missed)
1. Brad Hammond (Jnr)
2. Stephen (Wombat) Payne (Known Rapist of 6 week prior girl).
3. Jamie McNeil
4. Oconnel (known convicted sex predator)
5. Strible (Chemical salesman - Claimed sighted Hayley 1135 am)
6. Telstra Man (Claimed Sighted Hayley 1.05 PM)

What

1. Alleged Assault of Girl 6 weeks before Hayley's Disappearance (assuming girl files complaint & assuming no statute of limitations)?
2. Alleged Abduction (deprivation of liberty / formerly kidnapping) of Hayley Dodd
3. Alleged drugging / overdose of Hayley Dodd
3. Alleged Rape of Hayley Dodd
4. Alleged Murder of Hayley Dodd

When
29th July 1999 sometime after 1.05PM (or 1135 if we accept Scribley as last alleged confirmed sighting)

Where
1. North West Road Badgingarra - somewhere between Wathingarra Road and Hammond farm.
See my earlier calculations of walking speed etc & projected ETA.
See Fossils Google Earth Map of Scribley Alleged Sighting
See my Patch of Bush Past WAthingarra Google Earth Map

How
1. Allegedly Drugged/overdosed (6 weeks prior alleged assaulted Girl allegedly claims alcohol & drugged)
2. Allegedly Abducted by Force? (would require 2 alleged perps?)
3. Allegedly Knew assailant/s and got in willingly?
4. Allegedly Strangled / bashed
5. Allegedly Buried / Dumped

Why
1. Alleged Sexual gratification
2. Alleged Silence witness/hide evidence

I'm guessing that we need to build this research around whats known and those basic parameters above plus any that Fossil and Chris Margaret can add for us.

I'm just getting this started this way & can edit the post or we can copy paste (repeat) it and expand it with known info.

Maybe that will help put things more into a "manageable" perspective?.

Cheers for now!

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Chris Roubis » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:31 pm

any that Fossil and Chris Margaret can add for us.
No one else besides us 3 can access this forum. I need to know what nic Margaret is using to allow her to view this forum topic also.
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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:17 pm

Hi Chris, I don't know but she made contact with SLAL through the forum.

Can I please beg you to not make this forum public. Far too sensitive information discussed now. But what I've suggested to SLAL is that older pages, other than the last couple, be deleted due to the shift in thoughts and what we now believe has happened. This has been a wonderful avenue to discuss our thoughts and processes but I do not consider it necessary to keep the old data. I've suggested to SLAL that he copy all posts so that they can be shared to a new trusted person if required. But personally I do not consider that will happen - the trusted person that is.

What I am in the middle of doing is preparing a full timeline, facts, discussion document which details everything that occurred - even prior to darling Hayley stepping out on her adventure. The document will not contain any allegations, only fact and information told to me by Margaret. When you read this document you will be quite amazed what can be said without making any direct allegations. There will be no person's name only initials used. So what I'll do when its completed about mid next week is forward it to Margaret and ask her permission to post it here. I'm sure you will fully understand the highly sensitive position our research has brought us to - it's pretty unbelievable really when you think about it isn't it. I'll keep you posted of course!

We have to proceed very very carefully given that we know the police have commenced their inquiries. I do not want to under any circumstances do anything that might give these monsters forewarning of their fate and my mind is singing when I think of what fate lies ahead for them LOLOL. if something gets out into the public arena the police could well charge those responsible with meddling or hindering their investigations and that's a pretty serious criminal offence in itself.

Ciao

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:09 am

I'm not for deleting anything of we can - its a past record - of how we got to where we are now.

It could "serve" as a template (like involving the media - which brought forward the new info) in the future for other 'missing persons' cases...

Betwixt us all - that's where I am intending to concentrate my attentions, when this case is finalized (Missing persons cases).

For that reason I'd like to keep the early info if we can pls.

Margaret did once contact me thru this forum by PM and I replied but she never received the message or came back here.

I later contacted her via her face book page email address.

When she contacted me here it was a nic name with 'mother' in it - like "the mother" etc I'm not sure it MIGHT still be in my outbox I'll go check.

Cheers

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:15 am

This message was sent by a user no longer registered.
by Anonymous » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:46 am
You can see that whatever signon Margaret used originally - it is now gone / no longer registered - so in effect she will need to re register and Chris or I or Fossil will have to grant her the password to be able to log into this particular forum.

I think it would be good if Margaret could cast en eye over whats been posted and keep us on track - correct info we get factually wrong etc.

I understand if she would prefer not too.

It's entirely Margarets choice,

I mistakenly believed she was already watching over us - I must apologize to her for that oversight.

Fossil - would you like to invite Margaret to participate please?

Cheers

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:55 pm

SLAL

I've sent you a couple of emails tonight so I thought I better post here before you go off again LOL

Just found this interesting article on the net from the volunteer fire brigade near Badgingarra re those fires that occurred at the Marchagee Track Dec 2009 and Jan 2010. Have a read through - they've also got some good google earth maps detailing where fires were. They just happen to be in the same places that some of the concentrated searching was done when Hayley disappeared! http://www.ghvbfb.org.au/Fire%20Activit ... 9Dec09.pdf. The Marchagee Track can be accessed via Coalara Road - now that's interesting too isn't it!

I also noted to you in one of my emails, near the Marchagee Track is a place named Pinjarrega Nature Reserve. Could that place be of interest for guys that come from Pinjarra???? All salt lakes there and it's on the northern boundary of Watheroo Nat Park.

And I didn't know this and I'm wondering if M new that there is a Ministry of Justice farm located on the Marchagee Track. Now would that be a place where crims would be sent to rehabilitate hmmmmmmmmm.

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:00 am

I've sent you a couple of emails tonight so I thought I better post here before you go off again LOL He he he - who's laughing - you must be able to read my thoughts now - becoming the right psychic you are!. :)) :))

Just found this interesting article on the net from the volunteer fire brigade near Badgingarra re those fires that occurred at the Marchagee Track Dec 2009 and Jan 2010. Have a read through - they've also got some good google earth maps detailing where fires were. They just happen to be in the same places that some of the concentrated searching was done when Hayley disappeared! http://www.ghvbfb.org.au/Fire%20Activit ... 9Dec09.pdf. The Marchagee Track can be accessed via Coalara Road - now that's interesting too isn't it!

Interesting info there indeed! Read the link.
Between Christmas & New Year in a wheat growing area. Fire started in a paddock - to me this sounds like a harvesting fire - harvest happens around that time, usually a little earlier up that way but I know wheat farmers who still are harvesting around Christmas New Year. A belt sips and gets hot, melts and ignites, a bearing gets dry and seizes and gets to ignition temp.

No one but no one lights a fire deliberately in such an area at that time - its when they like to get on the booze and celebrate - have a break many try to finish harvest the day before Christmas so they can party hard, thru the festive season - some don't quite make it so go hard straight after Christmas to finish before new year, cut corners on maintenance and harvest fires happen.

They don't want fire- in the paddocks because the stubble contains a lot of dropped grain and sugars / protein in the straw at that time of year - that sheep graze on to put on good condition.

It's a serious income loss any fire to stubble's, however - say about march - may after much leaching by the sun - having been grazed and rained on a couple times, all the grains eaten, the sugars and protein in the stalks are all leached and gone, and some farmers used too then burn their stubble's prior to the onset of autumn rains, to put potash back into the soil and make it easier to rip and and sow the next years crop. These days of low till stubble retention burnings just about gone outta fashion altogether.

IF someone were to want to light a fire, to hide evidence, as you suggest - it would be more cost effective to do so in the adjacent reserve than in a paddock - from a simple "insurance perspective" the property with the ignition sources insurance has to cop all the costs, so again if I'm wanting to be an arsonist and get rid of evidence - start the fire in a nature reserve not a farmers paddock (or my own paddock).

The very first time I went to Badgingarra maybe 12 months ago - whatever it was - I went to search the area Chris identified behind the water tank on the hill near town. What I didn't know was, that since the google earth pic was taken, the area had been burnt.

As I may have posted at the time, the fire far from 'removing evidence' - actually exposes it. That scrub isn't even waist high, more mid thigh at best the ground is white sand. The only thing that hides anything at ground level is the leaves on the scrub.

Burn the scrub and you have black sticks that were the main branches, silhouetted against the white beach sand ground.

Things like rabbit burrows - clearly visible from 200 yards away!

Any sort of a grave dug - would be instantly observable from great distance. Any human remains located above ground - again, would be instantly visible from some distance.

When the scrub has it's leaves - you could walk past 5 yards away and not see the rabbit burrows, disturbed ground or indeed any human remains above ground even.

A fire - far far from "removing evidence" would in fact, make that evidence much much more likely to be seen / found.

It's a good theory - but again experience on the ground there doesn't bear it out IMHO.

If we could just burn ALL the NParks there bare, in summer - then hover at say 50 feet above them in a chopper - you could search the entire area for Hayleys remains with a fine tooth comb in say 2 or 3 days tops.
What would take 1000's of volunteers and hundreds of days searching, could then be done with 2 or 3 people in only 3 days!

A big fire like that (which you risk with a summer wildfire) could find the remains, help link them to the offender & solve the case - thus jailing the culprits.

Knowing this would you as a culprit deliberately light such a fire?
I know I wouldn't!
It just doesn't add up is all.
Well not to me anyway...I've investigated arson professionally as a CALM firefighter for 8 years dealing with wildfires lit by arsonists.
to me it just doesn't hold water, but I understand and applaud your thought process all the same....

I don't want to discourage the thought process because it is possible - you might hit on something with this research method - it might hit the vital link / clue.

Example.

You mention a DOJ farm on Marchagee track.

That to me has real possibilities- is THAT something we could 'ask' one of the local JP's about?...whether low risk offenders do manual farm labor there?

Could one or more of them have stolen a vehicle for a joyride, - spotted & abducted Hayley and dumped her body, abandoned the car and walked back to the DOJ farm?

You see that works for me!

Why do I say that!

Well years ago again when working with CALM we had an aboriginal Elder employed by govt to work with troubled aboriginal youth, who all lived on a DOJ farm in our shire. He took them in a group in his vehicle down to a lake in our NP to do track restoration work etc, since it was a place of significance to his people and he wanted to get these teens in touch with their ancestry and history etc etc.

Far from achieving that - a few of them stole his vehicle while his back was turned and left him and the rest of his charges stranded in the NP, and went on a crime rampage around the district using his govt supplied new luxury car - while he was on foot - with no mobile phone communications in a national park!

It took him and the others a couple days to walk out of the NP and get "help" by phone, during which time the kids had an unfettered time using his car for smash n grab raids on liquor shops auto tellers and sporting shops (for guns) in the closest city. They shot up road signs all thru the district etc etc before the police got involved and put 2 & 2 together and caught them.

So - yes sometimes these DOJ farms - CAN be a center for so called low risk inmates - who aren't at all well supervised, and from time to time they DO in my experience anyway, run amok and get up to the very hi-jinks that landed them in jail in the first place.

I'd like to know more about this abandoned car - the location it was found and the area searched by the volunteers.

You would think the police would know who's car it was, that was abandoned and why, and the fact they invested so much effort there tends to make one wonder what they knew at the time that caused them to do this.

This is something we need to know more about i think.

I am guessing one could well invest some time searching there, that might not be wasted effort.

I also noted to you in one of my emails, near the Marchagee Track is a place named Pinjarrega Nature Reserve. Could that place be of interest for guys that come from Pinjarra???? All salt lakes there and it's on the northern boundary of Watheroo Nat Park.

I don't know that the name of a reserve being similar to where the youths grew up would influence their attraction to use such an area as a hangout or for dumping remains albeit it is an interesting similarity in nomenclature.

I would think things more practical like - distance thus fuel cost, road condition (threat of getting bogged stuck and needing help to get out again), likelihood of being observed by others etc, might be bigger influences as to where youths go when they want to be away from the sight of grown ups.

As you say - they will have a spot - a "rooty hill' of badgingarra...where youths go or on a date "to watch the submarine races" as it were. ;)

We are thinking about the refuse site...not really a great choice because - anyone might show up at any time of day or night to dump rubbish, shoot wild feral cats or foxes at the tip at night, etc - hardly an amorous spot - garbage tends to smell and spoil the mood.

We do need to know - where this Badjingarra "rooty hill" spot might be - and again maybe that's something one of the local JP's could help us with?.

And I didn't know this and I'm wondering if M new that there is a Ministry of Justice farm located on the Marchagee Track. Now would that be a place where crims would be sent to rehabilitate hmmmmmmmmm.

I think we need to know about this and if so, just WHO was at the facility on that fateful date in 1999 and what their record shows.

All in all - very good work Fossil Please keep it up!.

Cheers

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:35 am

Firstly, the Pinjarra/Pinjarrega stuff - you have to think like some of these nutters sometimes SLAL, their brains function differently and if they want to play the game sometimes you have to attempt to figure out what their game could be. Remember that jigsaw puzzle we discussed ages ago....nutter brains are part of that jigsaw puzzle...anyway...

next point....

fires...okokok. yes they might actually makes things more visible but they also destroy evidence ie cig butts, dna, tracks, blablablablabla. perhaps someone could be 'clearing' to as they've lost their way and need more open ground to find the spot again if you know what I mean.

yep I fully understand that the fires were possibly started by stupid stupid people with vehicles in tinderdry paddocks. My friend's neighbour down near kojonup lost everything cos his wife took his lunch out to him in his tinderdry paddock on a 45 deg day - not very pleasant at all!

next point....

yep the Marchagee Track and that vehicle. I might just post something on the open facebook forum cos M's detailed the search and mentioned the vehicle on there so that leaves the gate open. I'll also put detail about the DOJ farm.

I'm also going to send an email inquiry to DOJ and ask about that farm - when it started up, etc. Yep that might be a good avenue of inquiry with local JP too. Will see first if any reaction from M or family when I post info on the facebook page

emailed you 2 google earth images just now. I tried to load them onto this site but for the likes of me can't figure how to do it again. any explanation on how to do this would be appreciated. but anyhow, in a nutshell, I reckon the plods may have made an error in the timeline doc. their 'x' mark for scribley sighting which happens to be the last officially accepted sighting is appr 6kms from the cnr of NW Rd and Badgingarra/Dandaragan Rd where scribley had traveled from - on the timeline doc they've noted "rough 6 km". BUT Scribley left a farm on Badgingarra/Dandaragan Rd at 11.30am (noted on timeline) and if you measure 6kms (like I have) distance from that farmgate to a point on NW Rd, that is much closer to where Buckley reckons Hayley's last sighting should have been. That therefore would make the Telstra guy's sighting at 1.05 more credible as well.

I've also sent you a snip of the timeline 1 doc of the scribley journey - you should be able to enlarge clearly with the fog lifted from those weary eyes!

Feel free to post google earth and other snips on here SLAL

I'll do the same with both timelines too....

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:30 am

oh lawdy......this is going to make your hair stand on end Chris!

M has detailed on the Facebook site the following information which clearly shows the plods were very keen to search the area known as Marchagee Track. They had some 37+ people involved in the search there!

Day 27 27/08/99 # k's NTH Marchangee Track searched near a site of an Abandoned vehicle.
Day 28 28/08/99 Foot search of area above by thirty two SES and five police.

M's also noted about the abandoned vehicle.

Last night I started looking at the Marchagee Track area and did quite a bit of googling. I located a detail document from the volunteer fire brigade up that way that were in charge of fighting the terrible fires that hit there in Dec 09 and Jan 10. In one of the documents the brigade noted "Justice of Ministry farm on Marchagee Track".

I've been doing some more googling and found documents that verify that farm which I believe is now called Warramia Farm, is used to house youth on bail. Read on...

One of the main docs I've located is a report from the Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission's discussion on the "Bringing Them Home Inquiry". In this document it is stated this farm facility is used to house aboriginal offenders.

Now didn't you write in your original answer to SLAL's quest for your assistance, that an aboriginal with a criminal background was involved and that they would be known to the police.

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/social_Justice/ ... /ch24.html
http://www.ghvbfb.org.au/Fire%20Activit ... 8Jan10.pdf

Gawd I love google!

I'm posting this info on M's facebook page today to see if she's aware of this farm. It's been there since the turn of last century - various uses but always youth in trouble.

As SLAL noted in his posting last night, it could well be someone that was staying at this facility could have had release on the day.

M also notes on the facebook site that the police also checked Coalara Rd - now Coalara Rd runs off North West Rd very adjacent to where the unofficial last known sighting of Hayley by the Telstra guy was, and Coalarra Rd links up with the Marchagee Track, which is also adjacent to the external boundary of Watheroo National Park with the Jingemia Caves are.

This is getting very very interesting...

I now ask the following questions....could the police have known or suspected that someone from the Justice Department's own farm facility that housed people charged with criminal offences on bail, be responsible for Hayley's disappearance? Is that why they concentrated their search efforts on these areas? Is that why they got the bulk of the manpower involved in the total search for Hayley concentrating on that area? Is that why this Marchagee Track area was the last official search area????

M's had told me previously that there is/was a disused corrections centre facility adjacent to the Watheroo National Park but she's never mentioned about this farm that is obviously still being used for the volunteer fire fighters to detail it. Me wonders if that statement WHAT IF is going to come into play here yet once again....

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:53 am

well it looks like that facility is still being used or was in and around 1999. i've found this article "Preventative and Diversionary Programs in Western Australia" http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/prev ... lomew.ashx and the author details the use of Warramia. He also details that various stations in various bush locations around WA used to take onboard wayward youth for training and it includes areas not far from Badgingarra. He also detailed the aboriginal group responsible for setting up the schemes. so keep that info in your hat!

I do wonder if hammond ever employed any of these youth from warramia???

I just love it when a new path shows itself....all may not be what it has seemed to be WHAT IF WHAT IF WHAT IF

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:02 am

Ok....this is getting better and better. I've located a hansard doc (wa) which details the sale of the farm to private owners http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Hansard ... -1511a.pdf.

the basic detail that's interesting to me is

Warramia Farm (Victoria location 11927, reserve 42231). This was a juvenile rehabilitation
centre which in August 1997 changed its purpose to an adult rehabilitation centre.


So now we know there were adults there in 1999 - getting rehabilitated...........hmmmmmmmmmmm sure!

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Sir Laughs-A-Lot » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:56 pm

Great work - I wonder how we find out - what adults were at the facility on 29 July 1999?

Would DOJ have that info?

If it was requested under FOI act would they supply it?

How do we then get the prior criminal records, of who was located there, on that specific day?

Have you been able to find, the actual property on google earth?

Just thinking about the other clues that Chris gave...sheds windmill oak tree creek rocks etc.

Can we lodge a FOI request on DOJ for that info?

IF it was an inmate responsible, that COULD help explain, WHY there's been no effort on behalf of govt to get the case solved for all these years - too politically embarrassing!.

It makes another valid theory Fossil - cannot deny that at this point in time!

hah - The Lake Jasper Project gets a mention in that paper you linked Fossil - it was the one I was referring to when the organisers car was stolen!!. One of the local Noongar elders Mike.... was in charge of it.

Cheers

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Re: Hayley Dodd missing case

Postby Fossil » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:10 pm

I don't think we could FOI that info - privacy act is pretty strong about that. BUT let me think on that for a couple of days - there are always ways to work around things. I'm thinking I bet there were locals employed there that could shine the light!

The coroners office would certainly have access and I think they also need to consider re-examing the female clothing that was found at the facility - see M's facebook reply to my posting this morning!

Don't think the plods will assist will they.

I've just sent M a pm as I'm pretty amazed the plods withheld that info from her - why would they hold such bland info about a rehabilitation facility being 'on the map'. Me is smelling a very very big very very very smelly rat at the moment!

perhaps having the info on the facebook page about machagee might prompt someone to post something too!

I've also asked M if she knows or was told of any bad community feedback about the facility.


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